I echo Meg’s sentiments and thanks! This is such a good conversation, balanced, nuanced, and without the shrill self-righteousness that so often accompanies voices on both sides of the debate. Thank you so much, Robert, for shining a light on Roberto’s work and voice. I’m also hoping for an English translation of this book.
Insightful read! Being in Los Angeles and surrounded by so many health “trends”, I’ve noticed people gravitating toward “natural” wines without even knowing what that actually means, and missing out on some incredible vintages as a result. As well as choosing a natural wine because of the “cool, hip” label, classic marketing. Enjoyed reading this, cin cin! 🍷
Thank you, thank you, for giving voice to a perspective that's been sorely missing in the conversation about natural wine. I believe that in many ways the new gestures are less post-natural and more pre-natural, or pre-"natural," in that many of the terroir-driven techniques you describe were forged in the pre-industrial era and have lasted *because they work.*
I cannot wait to read your book. Is an English translation planned?
Complimenti Robert! Good interview with someone who actually 'gets'it. I have been saying for 20+ years that 'natural'wine is a hoax; an excuse to claim sainthood by producers too lazy to do the work necessary to make a fine wine. I always will remember something that Paul Draper told me decades ago: that it takes a lot of tech to make good low-tech wines (organic, ambient yeasts, low SO2) etc). Everything Frego said about conscientious producers today is true. You can control turbidity, brett, pediococcus, VA, etc without going against 'Nature', so to speak. I have written about these issues, and the false flag of Natural Wine (no such thing, really-- people make wine, not Nature) in my own Substack and other spaces for awhile. It would be wonderful if we could kick this rotting corpse of a subject into a grave and move on! Joel
Dear Joel: Thank you for the note. I think Frega breaks it down pretty well how the original generation was simply trying to use less of the stuff wineries were being sold after WWII and move back to some tradition. Then the defects became this style. And I think he makes a good point of describing why young consumers gravitated to the fun and funk.
But now it is pretty cool that the quality winemakers are doing such work in the vineyards to get good grapes, which is pretty much everything or 99 % of it!
This conversation leaves out the US makers of natural wine - who mostly buy their grapes. So they keep talking about their minimal intervention in the cellar.
Very good point. But the action is in the vineyards now. The real challenge is in doing environmentally and socially conscious agriculture. Most quality wines nowadays use minimal intervention. So whether there’s a little sulfur added or not, is not —to me anyway —that important. The important question is the wine well-made and do you like it? For example Martha Stouman’s wines are very nice though she’s very involved in the vineyards she leases.
I couldn't agree more and that's why I write primarily about that. See my latest for Wine Business Monthly on regenerative. We also have an exciting new gathering called Mindset happening in June in Santa Barbara County. New science. New UV robots. New materials. And plain old old school fine tuning. What Ivo Jeranaz and Jordin Lonborg and Caine Thompson are doing is worthy of attention. Follow some of the coverage here https://winecountrygeographic.com/wine-journalism
Very interesting. With beautiful healthy grapes it's not that difficult to make delicious wine. But not only that we as a nation/ planet/species have to figure out he sustainable future of agriculture. Screw Mars! We've got to get it right here!
I echo Meg’s sentiments and thanks! This is such a good conversation, balanced, nuanced, and without the shrill self-righteousness that so often accompanies voices on both sides of the debate. Thank you so much, Robert, for shining a light on Roberto’s work and voice. I’m also hoping for an English translation of this book.
Insightful read! Being in Los Angeles and surrounded by so many health “trends”, I’ve noticed people gravitating toward “natural” wines without even knowing what that actually means, and missing out on some incredible vintages as a result. As well as choosing a natural wine because of the “cool, hip” label, classic marketing. Enjoyed reading this, cin cin! 🍷
Thank you, thank you, for giving voice to a perspective that's been sorely missing in the conversation about natural wine. I believe that in many ways the new gestures are less post-natural and more pre-natural, or pre-"natural," in that many of the terroir-driven techniques you describe were forged in the pre-industrial era and have lasted *because they work.*
I cannot wait to read your book. Is an English translation planned?
Meg, I think Roberto is hoping for this. We shall see. Very interesting person who brings the philosophers rigor to looking at this movement.
Complimenti Robert! Good interview with someone who actually 'gets'it. I have been saying for 20+ years that 'natural'wine is a hoax; an excuse to claim sainthood by producers too lazy to do the work necessary to make a fine wine. I always will remember something that Paul Draper told me decades ago: that it takes a lot of tech to make good low-tech wines (organic, ambient yeasts, low SO2) etc). Everything Frego said about conscientious producers today is true. You can control turbidity, brett, pediococcus, VA, etc without going against 'Nature', so to speak. I have written about these issues, and the false flag of Natural Wine (no such thing, really-- people make wine, not Nature) in my own Substack and other spaces for awhile. It would be wonderful if we could kick this rotting corpse of a subject into a grave and move on! Joel
Dear Joel: Thank you for the note. I think Frega breaks it down pretty well how the original generation was simply trying to use less of the stuff wineries were being sold after WWII and move back to some tradition. Then the defects became this style. And I think he makes a good point of describing why young consumers gravitated to the fun and funk.
But now it is pretty cool that the quality winemakers are doing such work in the vineyards to get good grapes, which is pretty much everything or 99 % of it!
Take care and Salute!
This conversation leaves out the US makers of natural wine - who mostly buy their grapes. So they keep talking about their minimal intervention in the cellar.
Very good point. But the action is in the vineyards now. The real challenge is in doing environmentally and socially conscious agriculture. Most quality wines nowadays use minimal intervention. So whether there’s a little sulfur added or not, is not —to me anyway —that important. The important question is the wine well-made and do you like it? For example Martha Stouman’s wines are very nice though she’s very involved in the vineyards she leases.
I couldn't agree more and that's why I write primarily about that. See my latest for Wine Business Monthly on regenerative. We also have an exciting new gathering called Mindset happening in June in Santa Barbara County. New science. New UV robots. New materials. And plain old old school fine tuning. What Ivo Jeranaz and Jordin Lonborg and Caine Thompson are doing is worthy of attention. Follow some of the coverage here https://winecountrygeographic.com/wine-journalism
Very interesting. With beautiful healthy grapes it's not that difficult to make delicious wine. But not only that we as a nation/ planet/species have to figure out he sustainable future of agriculture. Screw Mars! We've got to get it right here!